Why are these so cheap? Are they Jalop?

"highmodulus" (highmodulus) 09/09/2013 at 11:35 • Filed to: None

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In my search for affordable fun- the Nissan 350z's have been surprisingly affordable. Even places that sell at a bit for a premium have nice 350's for under $20k. Seems like there is good aftermarket support too. Thoughts?

Party-vi > highmodulus 09/09/2013 at 11:37

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- RWD

- Manual

- +/-300hp

Yep I'd say that fits the bill.

RamblinRover Luxury-Yacht > Party-vi 09/09/2013 at 11:38

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...if a bit lardy.

Cloud81918 > highmodulus 09/09/2013 at 11:39

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Early ones had engine bearing issues; Too small and too prone to damage. They also like gasoline and for a sports car are a bit heavy.

But I think that are great. But compared with the 370z it is a hard sale as it made everything better.

cbell04 > highmodulus 09/09/2013 at 11:40

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Fun car vq motor is pretty reliable too

Casper > highmodulus 09/09/2013 at 11:41

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The only reason they are so cheap is because they weren't good out of the box. They are a bit slow, heavy, have cooling issues, have brake issues, and look like an Altima. That being said, they are cheap enough that you can buy one and correct all those issues for under $5,000 and have a heck of a fun car.

Personally though, I would look at an S2000. I liked the S2000s a lot more than the 350Zs after driving both a bunch, and my S2000 is one of the few cars that I have sold that I really want back. It was a fantastic chassis, had endless possibilities, and just had a lot more personality than most new cars.

MontegoMan562 is a Capri RS Owner > highmodulus 09/09/2013 at 11:42

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In that range I'd go GTO or maybe Mustang.

Enginerrrrrrrrr > highmodulus 09/09/2013 at 11:45

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I'd say it's perfect. Pretty subdued style that I bet will look great in ten more years time as well.

Party-vi > RamblinRover Luxury-Yacht 09/09/2013 at 11:45

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The only think I don't like about the new Z's is the awful Nissan V6 exhaust note. Yuck.

Victorious Secret > highmodulus 09/09/2013 at 11:46

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They aren't fast for the numbers, they don't do anything with much excitement, they're a bit fat.

Get a GTO instead.

Jayhawk Jake > highmodulus 09/09/2013 at 11:54

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For a fun car at that price range, the GTO would like a word with you

RamblinRover Luxury-Yacht > Party-vi 09/09/2013 at 11:56

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One of the things I didn't really care for with a buddy's G-35. No exhaust character.

dogisbadob > highmodulus 09/09/2013 at 12:11

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The 350Z is kind of old. For the past few years it has been 370Z. So it better be under 20k by now since they were like 30k when new!

Too bad the 370Z doesn't have a rear wiper, and I hope Nissan's next Z has T-tops!

I'd rather have a 4-door G35/7 anyway.

highmodulus > highmodulus 09/09/2013 at 12:31

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Wow- thanks for the quick feedback. For the alternative candidates listed. Wish I liked Mustangs, don't like the retro thing (except for the cool Boss 302 Laguna Seca, of course). S2000's are really cool, from the golden era of Honda. Biggest issue is the size- at nearly 6'1" I was shoehorned into the thing.

The GTO is a neat car I had not thought of. Getting the US Spec Holden would be pretty cool- good ones appear thin on the ground right now. Mostly autos and "hooned within an inch of its life" versions. I guess affordable cuts both ways.

jts2087 > highmodulus 09/09/2013 at 12:32

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Having owned a 350z and driven a GTO (albeit a 5.7) plenty of times, I think the question you want to ask yourself is do I like to go very fast in a straight line, or do I like to go fast while still handling curves? While the Z could feel heavy at times, steering was great, engine was very responsive, and as you stated there is a TON of aftermarket support (interior was definitely lacking in comparison though). But, as always test drive the two, and a S2000 for good measure and you will find which one you like best.

highmodulus > jts2087 09/09/2013 at 12:48

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Good info- thanks. And its the fast/curves for me. We have a full roundabout where I live that can be very empty at times- I may have sent my M3's through them at speed. 45mph can be fun it turns out. . .

Is the 370 better or significantly improved over the 350?

jts2087 > highmodulus 09/09/2013 at 13:11

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I have only driven the 370 once, first and foremost the interior is far far ahead of the 350, and on paper everything looks and seems better. Handling was much improved for sure, didn't care for the exhaust note. Not that the 3.5 was much better, but to be honest I don't think the 370z looks as good. Its almost too boy-racer. The fangs really killed it for me in the grill, and the rear end seems even larger than the 350, which is saying something. But you won't be finding any decent ones for under $20k anyways.

revrseat70 > highmodulus 09/09/2013 at 13:24

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A few years ago you couldn't give people GTO's. Matt goes on drive and has one conversation and now its the obligatory response to any $20k question... go figure. (Just sold my half of part ownership of an '06 to my dad because I moved away. Had it since '08. GREAT GT/Muscle car, not "sporty" imo)

feather-throttle-not-hair > Casper 09/09/2013 at 14:17

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370Z has cooling issues, not the 350Z. I dont know about brake issues, but i've owned one new since 2006 and never had/heard of any serious issues. The track edition has nicer brembos than my car, but in everyday driving the regular units do their job just fine.

feather-throttle-not-hair > Cloud81918 09/09/2013 at 14:19

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I haven't heard of any bearing issues, granted it's been a while since i posted on the 350Z forums, but i have a couple thousand posts in the last five or six years.

feather-throttle-not-hair > Victorious Secret 09/09/2013 at 14:22

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"they're a bit fat, get a GTO instead"

I can't hate on the GTO because its awesome. But having hooned both cars back to back on several occasions, you'd be AMAZED at just how much heavier the front end feels on the Pontiac.

feather-throttle-not-hair > highmodulus 09/09/2013 at 14:31

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I've owned one new since 2006. The only issue i've had has been with weak synchros in the transmission. My second gear began to grind VERY rarely about five years into my ownership. Important to note : drivetrain warranty is 5 years and a lot of miles (not sure how many, i'm well under)

As far as model years:

2003-2005: Lots of torque, low redline, slightly less power

2005 (35th anniversary)-2006: Low torque, higher power 7K redline

2007-2008: good torque, best top end power 7.5K redline, ugly hood bump.

The interior is pretty fucking terrible. Borderline unacceptable for a new car, and trunk space is compromised. Its also pretty loud inside, Nissan obviously didn't put as much sound deadening in them as they could've.

The upside is that its a much better performance vehicle than people want to admit. This is due largely (in my view) to idiot ricers going crazy for them and obnoxiously modifying them. If I didn't own one, i'd probably roll my eyes whenever i saw one along with everyone else. But the truth is it's a pretty good fast car, doing nothing exceptionally but many things very well.

It doesn't handle like an S2K and it doesn't go fast in a straight line like a GTO. But it WILL out accelerate an S2K and out handle the Goat. Its a good combination that works well on the racetrack, as Car and Driver found out in 2006.

Also it hoons. Easy as hell to catch the rear end.

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feather-throttle-not-hair > highmodulus 09/09/2013 at 14:33

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I own a 2006 350Z, and one of my best friends owns a 2006 GTO (with a Holden front end conversion.)

Both are awesome cars.

Cloud81918 > feather-throttle-not-hair 09/09/2013 at 14:40

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I've heard early ones used a low/no lead bearings and the technology wasn't yet matured. I've heard high mileage cars have been having issues. I looked around and found one of the places I had heard of the issue.

Below is From SportCompact Car.

VQs and previous generations of Nissan motors, stretching from the QR to the RB series, all use a modern-style bearing material that's fairly intolerant to heat. While older engines used a tri-metal, lead-based alloy (designated F-770 internally by Nissan) that held up well at elevated temperatures, newer bearings use a lead-free material (for environmental reasons) that's far less tolerant of high oil temperatures. This is why most new Nissans from Sentras to Skylines all use oil coolers and bearing failure is so common for track-bound GT-Rs and 350Zs. At temperatures below 300 degrees F, where most synthetic oils are still stable, the newer lead-free bearing material has already changed chemically and been damaged permanently. Even at 250 degrees F, these bearings have lost significant load-bearing capacity.

Early generations of the VQ also used small bearings, which have less surface area to reduce friction and mass. The drawback is more load per bearing area. When coupled with a bearing material intolerant of high temperatures, that results in a lot of spun bearings in hard-driven cars. This is why we're seeing larger and larger bearing surfaces on updated versions of Nissan engines, as well as oil temperature sensors wired into the ECU. Add the fact that most new engines feature piston oil squirters, which transfer more heat from the pistons into the oil, and there's a snowball effect of hotter oil, bearing material transfer, increased oil clearances and reduced oil pressure.

Read more: http://www.modified.com/tech/sccp_0802…

feather-throttle-not-hair > jts2087 09/09/2013 at 14:41

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I'm just going to go ahead and second everything you just said.

highmodulus > feather-throttle-not-hair 09/09/2013 at 14:44

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Thanks! One Kool Aid Man Seal of Approval

feather-throttle-not-hair > Cloud81918 09/09/2013 at 14:52

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Hmm, good read. Worth knowing if you're going to modify your car, but honestly my impression is that people don't end up with catastrophic engine failure any more than in any other sports car. But admittedly that's a very unscientific conclusion i've just come to.

Cloud81918 > feather-throttle-not-hair 09/09/2013 at 15:00

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Just something to watch.

dsigned001 - O.R.C. hunter > highmodulus 09/09/2013 at 18:31

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It's say it's just a popularity thing. Afaik they're good cars. If you like it, and it's cheaper than comparable cars, then go for it. I think they look WAY better than the GTOs, I was never gaga over the s2000 the way some people were and the RX-8 really really really sucks gas.
Put it this way: nobody who matters is going to look down on you if you get a z.

Burrito de EJ25 > Jayhawk Jake 09/09/2013 at 21:23

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That styling, though :/

King Ginger, not writing for Business Insider > highmodulus 09/09/2013 at 22:06

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Yes.

Casper > feather-throttle-not-hair 09/09/2013 at 23:10

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The cooling issue is far worse on the 370Z, but I don't know anyone who regularly tracks a 350Z that hasn't done at least something with cooling. Everyone I talk to says they are fine for a few laps, but they soak pretty quickly in hot weather. Probably not an issue on the street, but I prep most of my cars based on worse case scenarios. The car I drove was fine most of the time, but I could see it warming up after hard cornering sessions or situation where the air density was lower.

The brakes are just easily over heated. Again, most common on tracks or lots of corners/down hill driving. Changing pads to more heat tolerant as well as fluid helped, but the feel still gets spongy. They are fine the rest of the time, but again, I prefer to setup my cars to handle light track duty... that way I don't have to worry about them failing the first time I get overly spirited with them.

The other common issues now that I have had time to refresh myself on them are the early cars had alignment issues that burned through tires, some mid range cars had engine problems, and people complained about transmission problems intermittently. Personally I never saw any of the problems, but I know a lot of people on the forums had the issues.

feather-throttle-not-hair > Casper 09/09/2013 at 23:27

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I have heard about the tire feathering problem on older ones, and I did have my transmission replaced under warranty, so I can personally verify that one.

I've never had my car on the track, and I live in Seattle where its rarely much hotter than 70. Its also at sea level. Perhaps if I lived elsewhere I would've encountered cooling issues, but I've never had the car be noticeably too hot, and I've never seen the temp gauge move past sort of optimal heat. OTOH oil coolers are neat.

Casper > feather-throttle-not-hair 09/10/2013 at 10:06

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The only time the car we had got hot was in the high desert or when we took it down south. When we were running around PIR and Pacific I don't believe anyone had real issues, but I know the radiator and fan were swapped because someone got nervous about it. From what I have seen of the 370Zs it's not optional, they absolutely need more cooling, where as the 350Z was situational.

The brakes were the bigger issue for the car we drove. We could overheat them just on hard consecutive twisties initially, but if I remember right all we did was change the pads and rotors, nothing crazy. It was just a matter of moving to decent slotted rotors and some more aggressive/race pads. Again, nothing like the problems the 370Zs had. I personally haven't tracked a 370Z hard, but the horror stories are everywhere, one that is stuck in my mind is when Car and Driver put the Z into the wall at VIR during testing due to brake failure and the testing that followed:

http://www.caranddriver.com/features/z-mee…